Modifying colours on MSX1...?

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Por Grauw

Ascended (10684)

Imagen del Grauw

11-05-2014, 00:45

I mean sure blown up like this, without any enhancement at all the original image looks rather blocky, but I prefer a simple scanline effect (which I think approaches an RGB monitor pretty decently)… Or some inter-pixel colour bleeding rather than whole-pixel colour bleeding.

If you have S-Video nostalgia it’s a nice filter effect, don’t get me wrong, but to say the graphics were created for this… nah :). Look at what it does to those black pixels on the right of Lilia’s head, for example.

If you want to provide counter-examples, I’d like to see them!

Por SLotman

Paragon (1242)

Imagen del SLotman

11-05-2014, 02:58

I don't know games from the 80s, but at least Blinky Scary School takes that into consideration:

The object to Blinky's right should mix the red/grey lines to get a nice different shade - as a lot of other tiles in the game; it should look much better on a CRT TV than on LCD :)

Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3609)

Imagen del sd_snatcher

11-05-2014, 03:52

Quote:

Or some inter-pixel colour bleeding rather than whole-pixel colour bleeding.

Yes, but that's exactly what should have been done. The TV resolution is 704x480i. The S-video emulation should operate at least on 640x480, so a lot of inter-pixels with intermediary colors should be created. If Blargg's filter only applies the chroma interpolation over the original resolution, than its not reaching what the real s-video does.\

EDIT: Try that:

1) Double the image X resolution
2) load it into the s-video filter tool
3) Double the image Y resolution

That should be more faithful to the s-video effect on the TV 240p mode that the MSX uses, except for the lack of scanlines.

Por hit9918

Prophet (2926)

Imagen del hit9918

11-05-2014, 10:04

@grauw, composite emu is different to all the topics in the antialiasing corner.
the algorithm is not about nostalgia blur, emulators blur sliders dont do it, no matter how much you crank them up.

I would say the algorithm correctly shows that composite is no good for this screen 5 image Smile
One pixel wide black frames, it is actualy asking more than usual photos or videos.

Por TheSpecialist

Expert (113)

Imagen del TheSpecialist

11-05-2014, 11:27

The differences in the real video capture of the Nemesis 2 logo to the algorithm, and the ridiculous black pixels in that Lilia portrait by the algorithm, just show that the algorithm needs work. It does not prove anything.

It's simply a fact that a some games made use of composite video effects, and others didn't.

Is it a good idea to use for new games? Let's see:
1. Different MSX VDP models give different results (colors are different on PAL TMS, NTSC TMS, Toshiba, Yamaha)
2. NTSC and PAL give different results.
3. Composite, RF antenna, S-video, RGB all give different results.
4. Differences in CRT technology, such as Trinitron vs Black Matrix, will give different results.
5. Differences in CRT resolution will give different results (CM8802 vs VS0080/CM8833 for example).

The answer is clearly: it's hit and miss.

Por hit9918

Prophet (2926)

Imagen del hit9918

11-05-2014, 15:53

@TheSpecialist,

Quote:

The differences in the real video capture of the Nemesis 2 logo to the algorithm

No, the algorithm is more close to real machine on TV than the capture.

My work is not about a wellness blur for pixels of screen 5, but about the sensational thing of more than 2 colors in 8x1 on composite MSX1.
Screen 12 jaggies might to be part of the topic, but I never suggested to go composite on screen 5.

I feel like needing to explain the pictures.
Except the mario tile, no tile was drawn for composite. They been in my scroll demos ages ago.
The composite is giving the fence and the greek building a bit more depth. It's just less synthetic as the emu.

There is a funny corner case in the screen 5 image that no one has seen on composite
versus dozens pixels showing the right character in the MSX1 sketch.

The modeled thing is "color launches one pixel earlier than brightness".
There are endless other topics like C64 emu making a funny round CRT or make unstable CRT lines and whatnot.
The algorithm is about nothing of that, but about that characteristic composite effect.

Por ARTRAG

Enlighted (6915)

Imagen del ARTRAG

11-05-2014, 23:21

Thinking a bit more on the topic, now I'm pretty sure that there was a paint program for msx 1 that had fill commands able to show more than 16 colors on msx1 and fill shapes alternating two colors in horizontal lines ...
I cannot remember the name, but maybe someone else knows it

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