is this a MSX?

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Por gdx

Enlighted (5477)

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23-01-2015, 07:20

I do not know the Frael BRUC100. Is this a 100% compatible MSX computer?
If this is the case it is an unofficial clone. MSX-Basic from Microsoft does not seem to be included. Only cartridges programmed in machine language seems to work (not all). If confirmed, this is only a semi-MSX.

The Philips NMS800 is an "MSX compatible" but not a MSX. For example MSX-DOS can not work despite that is written on the box. There is no cartridge port.The standard stipulates that all MSX must have a cartridge port or a extension BUS compatible with 50 pins.

Maybe the first batch of "Sharp Hotbits" came without the MSX logo because Sharp did not want to overshadow its computers sold in Japan but changed his mind later. This is the only real exception. Sharp should have put the MSX logo if it had sold in Japan the Hot-bit. Sharp should probably change the name of this MSX too.

Por Piter Punk

Master (224)

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23-01-2015, 09:28

Frael is an unofficial clone. The "MCL extended Basic vers.1.2" is MSX Basic, one of the printed materials (manual, tape cover, ...) still says MSX-Basic Smile

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6216)

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23-01-2015, 10:01

Piter Punk wrote:

Frael is an unofficial clone. The "MCL extended Basic vers.1.2" is MSX Basic, one of the printed materials (manual, tape cover, ...) still says MSX-Basic Smile

Btw, it's emulated in blueMSX and CocoaMSX (only the first version with MCL 1.1). Second version comes with an additionnal intro screen (Frael logo + menu with choice between loading of educational casssettes and BASIC). This computer was used in some Italian schools. The cassette connector is a not-MSX standard connector and the intro screen on version 2 is probably made by a PC software as contrary to all MSX computers, if you boot with a cartridge in the cartridge slot, you don't access directly to the game, but to the menu and need to choice 'BASIC' to finally run the game.

More infos here :

http://fraelbruc100.msxit.org/

http://retrocomputing.altervista.org/macchine/bruc100/bruc10...

http://www.computerhistory.it/index.php?option=com_content&v...

Por gdx

Enlighted (5477)

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23-01-2015, 10:26

Thx mars2000 for info.

I think the "MCL extended Basic" is a hack of the MSX-Basic.

The first serie of Frael Bruc 100 has no cartridge slot but a BUS extension!

http://www.museo-computer.it/Computer/computeridreport?idcer...

Por Manuel

Ascended (18777)

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23-01-2015, 22:02

mars2000: some questions on that emulation:
- are the extra keys emulated which this machine has? If so, can you tell me where they are in the keyboard matrix?
- what is the slot layout of this machine? (And what is the source of this information for the blueMSX config?)

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6216)

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23-01-2015, 22:16

Manuel: Italian MSX fan NRGO is my source. So ask him all the questions. Besides, you can find many answers in the computer's manuals (third link of my previous message).

Por Manuel

Ascended (18777)

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23-01-2015, 22:30

Ah, great, a slot layout. Does that version 1 have any MSX compatible cartridge slot? Maybe I didn't look properly, but it's not clear to me. I thought it only had one slot, but then it's not clear which internal slot that is (2 or 3).
I didn't find anything about the keyboard matrix in the manual, so that question is still open for me. (Perhaps it is wired to trigger the corresponding CTRL-codes?)

Por Fabf

Champion (264)

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23-01-2015, 22:46

Does anybody can read witch chip amp PSG sound ?

I can't read it.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6216)

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23-01-2015, 23:12

I don't think that the additionnal keys are emulated. For me, this machine uses a specific PC keyboard (so, there are more keys than on an MSX keyboard), on which a MSX keyboard matrix is applied (what's is confirmed in the manual). Besides, the extra features with these extra keys are not so interesting, as we have indeed CTRL-codes in all MSX machines and deplacing the cursor in diagonal can be made by pressing 2 different cursors at the same time.

For the cartridges slots, ask confirmation to NRGO. It seems that version 1 does not have a cartridge slot, only a BUS extension and that version 2 has a cartridge slot and a BUS extension. As generally, slot 3 is used in MSX machines for the BUS extension, slot 2 should be the cartridge slot in version 2. Of course, a BUS extension can be used to add a second cartridge slot or a diskdrive.

There's also some confusion with these manuals : the manual of the second version speaks about version 1 !!! Also, it seems me that in the real version 1, RAM is in slot 3, not in slot 1 as indicated in the manual of the second version (that speaks about version 1 ...). Again , you can ask where is the BUS extension (slot 1 or slot 2). In blueMSX, we don't have the choice, it's always 0 or 2 cartridges slots (1 or 3 is impossible in the way blueMSX has been conceived), but it has its importance for openMSX, I know that!

Por Manuel

Ascended (18777)

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23-01-2015, 23:28

Yes, now I'm completely confused... Who can shed a light on this?

What exactly is the difference between version 1 and version 2 and what are the slot layouts of them? Where is the RAM and where are the external slots mapped on?

Oh, and mars, why do you think RAM is in slot 3 in that version? I didn't find a slot map in the other (smaller) manual.

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