dsk to floppy copy on a PC to be used on msx

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Por Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Imagen del Toni Ramirez

01-06-2016, 18:50

Meits wrote:

start your computer without the disk in its drive. When it says it's in basic and you can start typing, insert the disk and try again Wink

The thing is I already did it this way, as soon as I realised that "print dskf(0)*1024" returned "0" and the disk wasn't inside the drive :S

Por meits

Scribe (6502)

Imagen del meits

01-06-2016, 20:06

Out of options. An SVI person should step in now...

Por Manuel

Ascended (18791)

Imagen del Manuel

01-06-2016, 22:07

When there's no disk in the drive you should get "Disk offline", normally...

Toni: are you sure you didn't make any typos?
E.g. if you type anything else than dskf (e.g. print dsk(0)), you would get 0.

Quote:

Typing "print dskf(0)*1024" in basic just returns "1024".

Are you sure you are in plain disk basic?, because:

Quote:

Typing "dir" gives "?redo from start"

dir is not an MSX-BASIC command, but an MSX-DOS command. But ?redo from start is a response from MSX-BASIC if you are in some sort of input situation (e.g. after INPUT A) and you type something that it didn't expect (wrong variable type). So either you had typed something odd before this, or you started with a disk inserted that ran a BASIC program that expects input. Can you make screenshots of what you're doing?
dir in MSX-BASIC should simply give a Syntax error
What you meant is the command files.

Quote:

Typing "call format a:", also "?redo from start"

Same as previous, but also here the command is wrong. Simply type call format in MSX-BASIC.

Por Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Imagen del Toni Ramirez

02-06-2016, 09:29

Well, as you may have noticed, I'm a total noob.

I assumed if I wanted to format a disk, I had to insert it before typing anything, so I tried it with the disk inside.

print dskf(0)*1024 is exactly what I typed, didn't leave anything out, I'm certain.

Anyway the problem I have now is with the Disk Manager itself:

-It returns "no valid disk image" if I drag previously extracted games (I don't want to dump the dsk compilations as they come, I just want to do my own compilation and I read here in MSX.org that it was possible just extracting games and dragging to Disk Manager window again the ones I want).

-It can't format as 720 Kb, but only in 360 Kb ( Shocked! ) - (and yes, I know where I can change this setting, but same result)

Apart from all that, in the few websites with dsk files I found, when I download the games and unzip them the size of each of them is huge, usually 720 Kb, which is absurd. Them the Disk Manager recognises as valid, but obviously something went wrong.

Por Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Imagen del Toni Ramirez

03-06-2016, 13:08

I managed to format some disks in my MSX. Interestingly enough, it does offer me the chance to do it double sided, although it is unable to complete it. No problem with 360 Kb.

Anyway I still have 2 major problems:

-The dsk games I download become 720Kb in size once unzipped, regardless of the size they shoud have, which makes them unuseful.

-The games I extract using the Disk Manager itself become several parts (usually 6), I drag these parts to the Disk Manager and once in the MSX I don't know how to load them. I tried loading the parts one by one, or just the .bas file, and nothing. No reaction or several errors. Sad

I suppose I have to create some kind of selector, as the one my old disks have, where I just type the number of the game (the computer loads directly the list of games, with a number for each of them), press return and they load easy and fast. But I can't do this, I don't know how. And of course my old disks have the games in one part, not several.

Por Wild_Penguin

Hero (644)

Imagen del Wild_Penguin

03-06-2016, 16:44

Toni Ramirez wrote:

-The dsk games I download become 720Kb in size once unzipped, regardless of the size they shoud have, which makes them unuseful.

There is nothing that can make 720kb images (especially of original disks that are in a proprietary format) usable as such on 360kb drives. Majority of software downloadable is in 720kb format, as that is more convenient for majority of people. To make life easy, a lot of poeple have upgraded their 360kb drives. But all is not lost if you do not want or are unable to upgrade your drive - look below...

Toni Ramirez wrote:

-The games I extract using the Disk Manager itself become several parts (usually 6), I drag these parts to the Disk Manager and once in the MSX I don't know how to load them. I tried loading the parts one by one, or just the .bas file, and nothing. No reaction or several errors. Sad

It seems that you have games that consist of several files (usually this means cracked cassette or cartridge games, but not always - although a lot of commecrial disks will use a proprietary format that is not listable by basic/msx-dos, some might be listable).

About disk image files:

If you find a disk image in a proprietary format (identifiable by the fact that you can not list the contents with basic or dos - either you will get an error or there are no files), the disk is meant to be bootable (but, if it is 720kb, you can not use it on your MSX...).

If you find a 720kb image, that you can list the files on (on an emulator, or a diskmanipulator / Disk Manager), and the files are < 360kb, you can copy the files onto a 360kb disk or disk image! If there are multiple separate games (totalling > 360kb), you may break them onto two disks, of course (but this may, and probably will, break a menu system on the disk, if it contains one).

About archives:

If you find a zip, lzh or .lha file, it is an archive (that is meant to be extracted on a PC and put the individual files on a disk, or extracted on your MSX. I recommend extracting on a PC, and then writing them onto a disk or disk image on the PC, because the MSX wil be slllloooooowwww).

About basic loader and autoexec.bat/bas

With software with individual files, usually there is a basic loader (.bas or .ldr file) which can be loaded in basic (load"file.end") and then run (run) or listed (list) to see the contents (=commands/basic listing) of the file. You can also load and run with a single command (run"file.end"). Sometimes there might be a .bat file, that can be run from msx-dos (type the name of the file). A handy command in dos is "type". It can be used to show the contents of a .txt or a .bat file (try "type readme.txt" or "type runme.bat" if you find such files).

If among the files (on a disk image or an archive) there is autoexec.bas OR msxdos.sys and command.com with autoexec.bat, the disk is meant to be bootable (basic will run autoexec.bas if found, and msxdos.sys and command.com means a dos disk, which means the disk will boot into dos - and if there is autoexec.bat, command.com will run it). Insert such disk before you switch on the MSX, and it should run automatically.

Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

HTH,

Por Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Imagen del Toni Ramirez

03-06-2016, 17:48

Wild_Penguin wrote:
Toni Ramirez wrote:

-The dsk games I download become 720Kb in size once unzipped, regardless of the size they shoud have, which makes them unuseful.

There is nothing that can make 720kb images (especially of original disks that are in a proprietary format) usable as such on 360kb drives. Majority of software downloadable is in 720kb format, as that is more convenient for majority of people. To make life easy, a lot of poeple have upgraded their 360kb drives. But all is not lost if you do not want or are unable to upgrade your drive - look below...

Toni Ramirez wrote:

-The games I extract using the Disk Manager itself become several parts (usually 6), I drag these parts to the Disk Manager and once in the MSX I don't know how to load them. I tried loading the parts one by one, or just the .bas file, and nothing. No reaction or several errors. Sad

It seems that you have games that consist of several files (usually this means cracked cassette or cartridge games, but not always - although a lot of commecrial disks will use a proprietary format that is not listable by basic/msx-dos, some might be listable).

About disk image files:

If you find a disk image in a proprietary format (identifiable by the fact that you can not list the contents with basic or dos - either you will get an error or there are no files), the disk is meant to be bootable (but, if it is 720kb, you can not use it on your MSX...).

If you find a 720kb image, that you can list the files on (on an emulator, or a diskmanipulator / Disk Manager), and the files are < 360kb, you can copy the files onto a 360kb disk or disk image! If there are multiple separate games (totalling > 360kb), you may break them onto two disks, of course (but this may, and probably will, break a menu system on the disk, if it contains one).

About archives:

If you find a zip, lzh or .lha file, it is an archive (that is meant to be extracted on a PC and put the individual files on a disk, or extracted on your MSX. I recommend extracting on a PC, and then writing them onto a disk or disk image on the PC, because the MSX wil be slllloooooowwww).

About basic loader and autoexec.bat/bas

With software with individual files, usually there is a basic loader (.bas or .ldr file) which can be loaded in basic (load"file.end") and then run (run) or listed (list) to see the contents (=commands/basic listing) of the file. You can also load and run with a single command (run"file.end"). Sometimes there might be a .bat file, that can be run from msx-dos (type the name of the file). A handy command in dos is "type". It can be used to show the contents of a .txt or a .bat file (try "type readme.txt" or "type runme.bat" if you find such files).

If among the files (on a disk image or an archive) there is autoexec.bas OR msxdos.sys and command.com with autoexec.bat, the disk is meant to be bootable (basic will run autoexec.bas if found, and msxdos.sys and command.com means a dos disk, which means the disk will boot into dos - and if there is autoexec.bat, command.com will run it). Insert such disk before you switch on the MSX, and it should run automatically.

Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

HTH,

Thanks for your time and your long answer. What I'm complaining about, though, is that almost all of the games I download happen to be 720 Kb in size, although MSX1 games shouldn't be more than 100 or so, worst case scenario.

Apart from that, absolutely all the games I try to write using Disk Manager become a list of files, even if when I download them there is only one file with the floppy disk icon. Let me put it in 2 pictures.

Then, when I write the game (or games dragged and dropped with the same process) to a disk, and put it in the MSX and I'm lucky enough to see that the computer reads them, I cannot load them. I have tried bload, load and run commands I found on the internet, but I keep getting no results or error messages such as "file not found" or just "ok" and no reaction.

Por Wild_Penguin

Hero (644)

Imagen del Wild_Penguin

03-06-2016, 21:10

Given that you have an unmodified SVI-738 (which means you have 64kb RAM), it can not run a major part (the best/largest) of the cracked ROM games. Cracked ROM games (or cassette games) need to be loaded into RAM as a whole, and you still need a small amount (8-16kb) free to actually run them. For example, it won't run F1-Spirit. The reason is that you have only 64kb RAM. F1 Spirit is a 128kb ROM game! You can see from the files that they total 16kb*8 = 128kb, so there's no way you can run them.

Look at max 32kb or 48kb ROM games, or games that were originally published as cassettes. They should run fine. In any case, anything that is cracked (=originally a ROM or cassettte game) will not run if you do not have enough RAM to load it. (Games that were originally published on disk, should run on 64kb if they say so, but I believe there are few MSX1 disk games).

Also, don't try commands at random. If there is a single bas or an ldr file (or a bat file), that is the one to run. Otherwise it should be clear from the file name which needs to be run. IF you are not sure, post the file listing here (otherwise it is impossible to say what is wrong).

Por Manuel

Ascended (18791)

Imagen del Manuel

03-06-2016, 21:41

Toni Ramirez wrote:

Thanks for your time and your long answer. What I'm complaining about, though, is that almost all of the games I download happen to be 720 Kb in size, although MSX1 games shouldn't be more than 100 or so, worst case scenario.

The games are not 720kB in size per say, but if you downloaded it as a disk image, that disk image is 720kB. The files on it may be much smaller than 720kB total. See below.

Disk images are the size of a total floppy disk. That's 720kB for double sided, double density 3.5" disks. And 360kB for single sided... so nothing absurd about it... you just got it into a large container format meant to be written to a real DS DD floppy disk...

Quote:

Apart from that, absolutely all the games I try to write using Disk Manager become a list of files, even if when I download them there is only one file with the floppy disk icon. Let me put it in 2 pictures.

You are here trying to extract files from a disk image. In this case, it's a crack of the 128kB MSX1 MegaROM game F-1 Spirit. This crack probably needs an MSX with a 128kB or larger memory mapper. On such machines it would just autorun if you insert the disk in the MSX, because it contains an AUTOEXEC.BAS. But on your 738, it won't run as you do not have enough memory to run it.

Quote:

Then, when I write the game (or games dragged and dropped with the same process) to a disk, and put it in the MSX and I'm lucky enough to see that the computer reads them, I cannot load them. I have tried bload, load and run commands I found on the internet, but I keep getting no results or error messages such as "file not found" or just "ok" and no reaction.

As I said, this is not useful for your 738-machine, but it is supposed to automatically run. You could also manually run it after inserting the floppy disk after booting by typing:
RUN"AUTOEXEC.BAS"
or in this case probably also with
RUN"F1.BAS"

Por Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Imagen del Toni Ramirez

03-06-2016, 22:10

Thank you guys for the answers. We may be getting to the bottom of it.

Regarding the loading commands, as I said I tried run, bload, load... and not with F1 Spirit only, but also with games that I extracted from disk images meant to run in a 738 (I downloaded, in fact, 70 disks full of games from a folder named "738"). F1 Spirit is not one of them, I got it somewhere else. But anyway: the other ones should run with the right command and they don't. I even tried to modify the code of an autoexec file in order to change the names of the games I deleted and write the names of the ones I put instead, but the loader just didn't load. "Nice" try, I guess. And typing "files" gave me the list, but all of them in parts or not bootable for some reason.

The RAM memory problem: maybe that's the thing. But I assure you I have a lot of games from my childhood and all come in disks. And there I have lots of Konami games in disks with 18-19 games, but I just wanted to get the ones I didn't have, such as King's Valley 2, the aforementioned F1 Spirit or Maze of Galious.

So maybe they're not properly dumped in these dsk files, or in order to run in a 64K MSX they have to be dumped in another way that I don't know about and the people who took the time to create these dsk files just didn't have in mind the 64K MSXs, which I understand. I don't know. It's a pity but back in the 80s someone did think about the 64K MSXs, because my disks didn't appear out of nowhere LOL!

The only thing that worked for me so far is copying these .dsk files meant for the 738 as they come. With the loader in finnish and the selection of games they made. If I try to extract the ones I'm interested in and do my own compilation, of course the loader gets lost and then the list I get after "files" doesn't let me load any of them.

So... maybe I'll be unable to do it and I'll have to buy the MFR and forget about new disks. All this just made me feel more good-for-nothing than before.

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