MSX1 Memory Mapper

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Por madscient

Master (193)

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19-02-2016, 07:35

Mapper memory was designed to be allowed up to 4 on a computer, from the beginning.
Limitation of "4" was determined by fan-out capability of MSX slot bus.
So, every software using memory mapper MUST NOT read mapper register.
Also mapper hardware SHOULD NOT allow to read register.
However, as you know, as actually some system chip did, but even, it will not cause any problem as far as the software complies with the spec.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10768)

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19-02-2016, 09:34

@madscient Up to 4? That’s a rather arbitrary number, where did you get that from... I can easily fit 9 mappers on my MSX2 (I only own two external mappers though Smile).

@gdx "Originally the mapper was designed to be alone." MSX has always been about eXtensibility, with (unmapped) RAM expansion cartridges existing from the beginning. I find it hard to believe that they did not account for multiple mappers when designing the memory mappers.

Por gdx

Enlighted (6213)

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19-02-2016, 09:30

madscient wrote:

Mapper memory was designed to be allowed up to 4 on a computer, from the beginning.
Limitation of "4" was determined by fan-out capability of MSX slot bus.

This limitation is just hardware. The registers reading function has not been implemented by mistake in conception of MSX.

madscient wrote:

So, every software using memory mapper MUST NOT read mapper register.

As explained above yes but at first this was planned otherwise. There were not only good ideas in developing the MSX. The management of slots for example.

Gwauw wrote:

I find it hard to believe that they did not account for multiple mappers when designing the memory mappers.

Me too and there are a lot of amazing things in the MSX.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10768)

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19-02-2016, 09:36

gdx: You present it as facts but to me it seems speculation. What is your source of information?

(You’re not the only one by the way...)

Por gdx

Enlighted (6213)

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19-02-2016, 10:15

Grauw wrote:

What is your source of information?

No, this conclusion is come after I have gathered much information to write a document on the MSX (Not in English). I note only the info I found in this PDF. Many information come from Japanese documentions.

Grauw wrote:

That’s a rather arbitrary number, where did you get that from... I can easily fit 9 mappers on my MSX2 (I only own two external mappers though

Right! Because this limitation is a minimal for a standard MSX but manufacturers may make better if they want

Por Grauw

Ascended (10768)

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19-02-2016, 11:17

gdx wrote:
Grauw wrote:
gdx wrote:

Originally the mapper was designed to be alone. With the falling prices of memory, put a second Mapper was becoming interesting. They decided that the additional Mappers would without reading registers but given that this becomes complicated. The standard has evolved again and reading registers was considered obsolete. The MSX-DOS2 standard no longer takes account the state of any mapper registers.

What is your source of information?

No, this conclusion is come after I have gathered much information to write a document on the MSX (Not in English). I note only the info I found in this PDF. Many information come from Japanese documentions.

Well, without source I don’t believe it.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10768)

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19-02-2016, 11:15

gdx wrote:
Grauw wrote:
madscient wrote:

Mapper memory was designed to be allowed up to 4 on a computer, from the beginning.
Limitation of "4" was determined by fan-out capability of MSX slot bus.

That’s a rather arbitrary number, where did you get that from... I can easily fit 9 mappers on my MSX2 (I only own two external mappers though

Right! Because this limitation is a minimal for a standard MSX but manufacturers may make better if they want

That number of 9 mappers I mentioned is based on 2 slotexpanders with 4 mappers in each, plus the built-in mapper. The maximum number of mappers is restricted by the number of slots, so that’s why I don’t understand why there would be a minimal of 4 in the design or the standard, doesn’t make sense to me.

(And, this too is a statement of fact without providing a source.)

Por madscient

Master (193)

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19-02-2016, 11:17

@Grauw:
Sorry, I got mistake. Let me correct it as 8 instead of 4.
As mentioned above, that limitation is from electrical capability.
Of course, you can connect 9th mapper on the computer physically.
And probably, power current was enough to drive 9 mappers, it will work fine.
However, Mapper-Support-Routine API supports only up to 8 mappers, so you need to manage all mappers on your own software.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10768)

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19-02-2016, 11:23

@madscient Ah so you mean that DOS2 supports up to 8 mappers. Makes sense, to limit the amount of DOS2 system memory used for mapper support data structures.

Por gdx

Enlighted (6213)

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19-02-2016, 12:52

Grauw wrote:

Well, without source I don’t believe it.

I do not ask anyone to believe me. I say only what I know. Besides, this information that is an insignificant detail.

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