Lack of respect

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Por xgipe

Champion (397)

Imagen del xgipe

07-05-2008, 16:45


I think that there’s nothing more annoying than a developer trying to make money with a product designed for such a small market like ours.
IT’S A HOBBY FOR CHRIST SAKE! And there are several new options being released each year for free by several other developers that think in this way, the right way.

I think, also, there's nothig more annoying than a "nice guy" who's selling an "unique and rare" MSX stuff on e-bay for a unreasonable price for a small market like ours, and seems it's Ok. So, if anybody wants to develope new games or aplications, is on his (her) right to earn some money for it... don't you think?
If you decide to put your work as OpenSource or GNU, for me it's good! I like Linux distributions a lot... but I think it's not fair to blame the others for doing the other way around.
But it's just my oppinion too!
Cheers.Smile

Por Fudeba

Expert (113)

Imagen del Fudeba

07-05-2008, 16:50

Some reactions really make me wonder "where our community want to go".

I do understand those that are collectors, which will buy only complete packages.
I do understand those that are nostalgic users, which will buy only old software (1990 and older).
I do understand those that are enthusiast users, which will buy everything, old or new.
I do understand those that are just users, which will buy nothing, only use freeware or abandonware.

What I really do not understand are those who think everybody has the same motivations as himself
or - worse - use this kind of "small talk" to justify his own misbehavior.

I am tired of saying this, but here we go again...

It is *not* a matter of money, it's a matter of respect to someone else's work. Everyone that produces
something has the (ethical) right to decide at least how his product will be distributed.

The developer has the right to decide if his product will be free, but distributed only from his page.
The developer has the right to decide if his product will be free and distributed anywere.
The developer has the right to decide if his product will be paid for those who use it.

And every user has the right *to agree* and use/distribute the software in the way the
developer wishes OR has the right *to disagree* and *not* use/distribute the software at all.
It is not a "positive right" because these pieces of software are not registered on any patent
office or something. Nonetheless, it's some kind of "natural right", related to the ethic aspects
accepted by a (this?) community. The disrespect of this natural right is often referred as piracy,
when the object of the disrespect is a software; however, piracy only involves making profit
from someone's else work, without the given "positive right".

Now we can discuss two things: "if it's not piracy, what is it?" and "what is profit?"

* Well, if it's not piracy, it is just plain disrespect and unethical behavior. Since no one is
breaking the positive law, the only means to punish this behavior is "social pressure",
keeping away those with an unethical behavior. The fail in doing so will just cause the
community to fade away even faster. No one likes to be part of a community polluted by
members who disrespect its rights, even the natural ones.

* The second question is "what is profit?". Well, profit is related to the concept of
earning more money in a transaction than it cost to produce/obtain the object of the
transaction. Well, I really do not believe SLotman (or any other MSX producer at this
time being) make profit from anything produced for MSX. The value paid for each copy
- in such a small market as ours, as someone pointed out - will never pay even the
hours spent in development. The development is, in fact, justified because it is a hobby;
nonetheless, this doesn't mean the producer has to abdicate his (natural) rights; I he
want to pay a pint (of beer) for his comrades or even use the money earned to make
possible a visit the next community meeting (and then drink a beer with its comrades),
then let it be. If one agree with this, if one think the producer deserves this reward, just
buy the game, contribute with him etc. If one think the author doesn't deserves this
reward, because the software developed sucks, then *why the hell there is the need
of a copy of the software*? In that case, let the producer alone and pretend the piece of
software was never programed or released. It's pretty simple.
It is important to take into account that MSX software producers are never talking about
thousands of dollars. The amounts are usually bellow 10 dollars a month (joining everything
'earned' with every software ever produced for MSX), and not every month! I really like someone
to explain me HOW this "big" amount can be called "profit" when one spends dozens of hours
per month developing MSX software.

But whatever. I am tired of saying those things and being flamed.
As the time goes by, more and more I agree with UZIXman.

Por doraemonppc

Master (244)

Imagen del doraemonppc

07-05-2008, 17:11

I bought some games from you and I hope that you will develop a lot of new games.
Good luck
Sorry for my bad english

Por Lemuriel

Ambassador (0)

Imagen del Lemuriel

07-05-2008, 17:53

Have you downloaded and played this files and are you sure it is your game? I have seen lots of old games called profantion 2.
If you are sure, then yes, it is piracy and disrespect.
What you are going to do about it?
If you keep just talking in forums you will change nothing, because pirates don't care for ethics or respect. They are pirates.
If you quit or program just for yourself or for close friends, you solve your problems.
Or, like you said, you only sold a limited number of copies, so trace the pirate and sue him.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9971)

Imagen del wolf_

07-05-2008, 18:03

I bought some games from you and I hope that you will develop a lot of new games.
Good luck
Sorry for my bad english
There's no need to apologize for 'bad English' anywhere on MRC, esp. when there are no incorrect words at all.. Tongue

(wii coot even reed crab like this, y00 no.., and do you see me apologize anywhere? Tongue)

Por SaebaMSX

Hero (533)

Imagen del SaebaMSX

07-05-2008, 18:24

It is *not* a matter of money, it's a matter of respect to someone else's work. Everyone that produces
something has the (ethical) right to decide at least how his product will be distributed.

The developer has the right to decide if his product will be free, but distributed only from his page.
The developer has the right to decide if his product will be free and distributed anywere.
The developer has the right to decide if his product will be paid for those who use it.

I fully agree with Fudeba.

And someone stated that the game was not good enough to be sold... well, that is your oppinion. If you think so, just don't buy it, but do not try to throw shit against the developer.

But I could see some reactions from Brazillian guys that I suppose that IRL don't get on well with Slotman... that happens in Spain too as well as in Holland. Just let it be and do not mix us with your problems!

Por xgipe

Champion (397)

Imagen del xgipe

07-05-2008, 18:57

I fully agree with Fudeba too.


And someone stated that the game was not good enough to be sold... well, that is your oppinion. If you think so, just don't buy it, but do not try to throw shit against the developer.

So it seems it's good to pay for some "vintage" crappy games, but not to pay for new soft.


And. moneyless hobbies? I spend a LOT of money on original MSX Games. Today I just received originals: Tetris 2 (disk, box, manual) + Phantis (My first original spanish k7). BUT, really, I would NEVER pay a cent for a game like that.

Yes, sir! If I don't like somethig, must be for free! (so, I don't like Ferrari. Must be for free!)

Smile2

Por dvik

Prophet (2200)

Imagen del dvik

07-05-2008, 21:29

It is not a "positive right" because these pieces of software are not registered on any patent
office or something. Nonetheless, it's some kind of "natural right", related to the ethic aspects
accepted by a (this?) community.

SLotmans owns all rights to his software and he has the copyright. This is nothing he needs to apply for. If you write something you own the rights to it. If someone is redistributing your software without your approval its illegal. So the person redistributing his work and the website hosting it is breaking the law. For some reasons there seem to be some weird belief that just because a game is done by a hobbyist, its not covered by copyright laws. Thats just not the case. And developers have the right to put whatever license he wants to his software so stop bitching about whether some software aren't made freeware.

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

Imagen del anonymous

07-05-2008, 22:50

Just my two cents... I fully understand SLotman's words. He spent time developing the game and he put the game on sale with a symbolic price ($6 is extremely cheap for an MSX game, specially today, so, everybody who wants the game can pay for it). Putting it on eMule as part of a game compilation is, more than a law infringement, a huge lack of respect to people who develops software for MSX. It is not a question of money, but of respect. People developing for MSX is *not* working for money, but to see how much the community appreciates his work.

I must say that I only partially agree with people who sais that this kind of piracy is not common in the MSX community. It should not be common, but I think it is not the first time something like this happens. However, SLotman, please, do not leave the MSX scene for a thing like this.

I also read some comments about the quality of the game. Although the quality of the game has nothing to do with piracy (if you like it -there is a demo-, buy it. If not, don't buy it, it's simple), I just played the demo version to see the game. Sure it could have been done better (smoother motion, slightly better graphics, better music replayer, lower memory usage, ...) but it seems to me that it has the same playability than the original Profanation, and that it is better than the Speccy conversion. That's the best thing that can be said of a remake. Of course, Profanation has the "speccy-european" playability: it is *very* hard. It is not a game to jump and run, but a game to think, plan every little move and memorize the enemies behavior. People saying the game is crappy should play the original Abu Simple Profanation, or some of the recent PC ports. Being very hard and having an unusual (in the MSX context) gameplay does *not* mean a game is bad.

So, SLotman, good work.

Por hbarcellos

Hero (640)

Imagen del hbarcellos

08-05-2008, 00:46

hbarcellos so how does it feel to be a total self righteous egocentric maniac behind your keyboard?

So far, so good, Vampier! Smile

Here's my opinion:

1) It's the right of the author to charge for anything he likes. Like a remake, a patched Coleco ROM, a bad game, a spreadsheet, an old bag, refurbished tires...
2) PERSONALLY, I would be flattered if one of my (non-existant) commercial products is being distributed on a p2p network. FAME comes first in the internet business:: EYEBALLS!
3) PERSONALLY, I would never ever pay for a .ROM file.
4) PERSONALLY, I would give the ROM file, as an incentive to sell a cartridge/disk/tape version of it.
5) PERSONALLY, if I'm making commercial products for a live platform, as Windows, I would probably even PAY to make people use my freeware games...

BUT, again, It's just my PERSONAL opinion. I really don't care about him. It's his company and his strategy. Doesn't matter how terrible and st***d it looks like to me, I would remain silent.
Probably he's happier now, because at least two more persons bought the game.

What pisses me off, is that he's ALWAYS saying that he'll leave the MSX scene!
- Someone wrote a bad review about Breakfree... Ohhh! I'll quit doing anything!
- I found a pirated version of my beloved pascal code somewhere... Poor me!! I'll only code for windows now!
and etc...

*PS* If someone inserts some kind of "lock" or something inside BlueMSX, I'll be glad to loose some nights looking to the ugly SoftICE screen, and BlueMSX_Slutman_Cracked.zip will be freely available at an eDonkey server close to you...

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