Modern BASIC stuff by NYYRIKKI

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By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5889)

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06-10-2021, 03:49

gdx wrote:

There must be many limitations but the concept is fun.

Well... Naturally yes in a sense that only all MSX1 functionality is there right now... Implementing MSX2 SUB-ROM would be a whole new game where I don't know the rules yet, so I didn't even try. Surprisingly I'm anyway pretty much on a par right now when it comes to MSX1. I've already removed some unnecessary stuff like hook system and slot handling and on the positive side from application perspective SymbOS 3.1 will be much more memory efficient compared to SymbOS 3.0. Naturally I've also needed to add stuff, but there is also a lot left to optimize. Next I'm planning to trade cassette and punched card routines to proper disk routines... I hope this trade will be negative as well... in the end I hope there will be still >20kB left for user programs and I manage to expand the language with some SymbOS specific stuff... MSX-BASIC compatibility is anyway a high priority.

By Sepulep

Resident (36)

Sepulep's picture

06-10-2021, 14:59

I wonder if you can/could save the basic program via the file menu...its suggestive...

By Latok

msx guru (3843)

Latok's picture

06-10-2021, 15:11

NYYRIKKI wrote:
wolf_ wrote:

Can two SymbOS apps read/write the same files and memory? I mean, one could play a Pac Man in window #1, and have a designer in Window #2 in which you redraw the memory containing the Pac Man sprite - or maybe it even redraws it automatically according to a timer. Would that mean you see the Pac Man sprite change all the time while playing?

Totally not practical of course, just curious how far we can stretch this madness. Wink

Normally the applications (like this one) does not know about each other, so you can't communicate directly... but on the other hand you can send a message (a bit like e-mail) to say, "here would be a new sprite" and the other application would check the e-mail and put that sprite in to use... I would anyway use network daemon instead, so that the applications don't need to run on same machine.

So with your MSX co-developer-friend it should be possible to work together on the same BASIC listing? How cool would that be! Or ASM code in notepad? With the use of the network daemon.....

By AxelStone

Prophet (3058)

AxelStone's picture

06-10-2021, 15:32

Latok wrote:

So with your MSX co-developer-friend it should be possible to work together on the same BASIC listing? How cool would that be! Or ASM code in notepad? With the use of the network daemon.....

I think he is talking about communicate processes between them, not people Smile . There is another POC made by NYYRIKKI sending messages to SymAmp from another app.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5889)

NYYRIKKI's picture

06-10-2021, 17:50

Sepulep wrote:

I wonder if you can/could save the basic program via the file menu...its suggestive...

The problem here is that the BASIC is running as console application, so it doe not "own" or manage the window it is running on... For this reason I find it unlikely this will happen. For sure you can open even own menu window, but I'm not planning to take the project to such direction.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5889)

NYYRIKKI's picture

06-10-2021, 18:31

Latok wrote:

So with your MSX co-developer-friend it should be possible to work together on the same BASIC listing? How cool would that be! Or ASM code in notepad? With the use of the network daemon.....

Currently there is no assembler for SymbOS, but yes I've had some similar thoughts. Practically I think that some VNC-client or server would be quite nice... but practically amount of RAM may make the client a bit too network intensive and i don't know if you can make a server without rewriting the screen manager process. Anyway these are not on my ToDo list.... Although networking seems to be very easy to handle on SymbOS, personally I'm not quite there yet. Smile My MSX does not have permanent internet connection and the emulators don't seem to support networking. Sure you can use the localhost driver, but then you need to be doing both client and server at a same time.

By edoz

Prophet (2400)

edoz's picture

06-10-2021, 19:50

NYYRIKKI wrote:

Although networking seems to be very easy to handle on SymbOS, personally I'm not quite there yet. Smile My MSX does not have permanent internet connection and the emulators don't seem to support networking. Sure you can use the localhost driver, but then you need to be doing both client and server at a same time.

Yes, networking is a bit hard because missing emulator. I did IRC, Email, and small game with network and it is not easy and cost you a lot of time. Not that it is difficult, but you need Wireshark to debug and multiple servers/clients to test everything so it is time consuming! Funny thing is all of suggestions are possible if you have 100% time to do it Big smile

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6581)

ARTRAG's picture

07-10-2021, 21:01

Maybe a dummy question, but how hard would it be to make the msx basic work on all versions of symbos ?
Would it work on CPC ? Probably while in window mode the graphic primitives could be handled by the OS...

By ducasp

Champion (467)

ducasp's picture

07-10-2021, 21:36

NYYRIKKI wrote:
Latok wrote:

So with your MSX co-developer-friend it should be possible to work together on the same BASIC listing? How cool would that be! Or ASM code in notepad? With the use of the network daemon.....

Currently there is no assembler for SymbOS, but yes I've had some similar thoughts. Practically I think that some VNC-client or server would be quite nice... but practically amount of RAM may make the client a bit too network intensive and i don't know if you can make a server without rewriting the screen manager process. Anyway these are not on my ToDo list.... Although networking seems to be very easy to handle on SymbOS, personally I'm not quite there yet. Smile My MSX does not have permanent internet connection and the emulators don't seem to support networking. Sure you can use the localhost driver, but then you need to be doing both client and server at a same time.

Bluemsx on Windows fully supports Obsonet, but then Obsonet is not supported by SymbOS, and maybe it won´t ever be supported as it lacks TCP-IP acceleration (so you need something like internestor lite to work as TCP-IP stack, which consumes ram and cpu)... On Windows version of BLuemsx (a custom version I did) you can also use an ESP8266 connected to a serial port (I use a 3V3 TTL Serial to USB adapter that creates a virtual comm port) to emulate the SM-X / SX-2 WiFi connection (it is not properly emulation as the ESP is needed, but it emulates the interface between SM-X and ESP8266), but then again, unfortunately there is no Symbos support today for SM-X/SX-2/OCM (with KdL dongle) WiFi network...

If support for one of those two is added to Symbos, then BlueMSX on Windows can work as a debug platform for this kind of application. I currently use BlueMSX with both Obsonet and SM-X WiFi emulation to test and debug my TCP-IP UNAPI applications Smile

By ducasp

Champion (467)

ducasp's picture

07-10-2021, 21:36

ARTRAG wrote:

Maybe a dummy question, but how hard would it be to make the msx basic work on all versions of symbos ?
Would it work on CPC ? Probably while in window mode the graphic primitives could be handled by the OS...

Considering that graphic modes are the real deal and using the VDP, very unlikely...

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