dsk to floppy copy on a PC to be used on msx

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By meits

Scribe (6514)

meits's picture

04-06-2016, 00:59

It's easy to fill a single sided disk with the old Konami games as they were very small. Later MSX1 games were released on megaroms. There's going to be no way you are running them on your SVI. I've never seen a disk hack of Maze of Galious that worked with less than 256kB. A lot of the Konami games that are 128kB in ROM size were never (properly) hacked to fit in the RAM of a 128kB MSX. They always needed a tad more which leads you to 256kB.
In 1986 I started out with a Philips VG8235. I could brows the files of ROM dumps because they fit a single sided disk, but not run them because I had too little RAM. I could run every disk game if it was just a matter of RAM, of which I had 128kB, but the disks were 99 out 100 times double sided, so they weren't an option either.
I was stuck with an MSX2 which could only run small MSX1 games and at the moment, so are you. And in your case with even less as you don't have an MSX2 which leaves MSX2 software out of your reach and you only have half the memory of what I had.
Not having a megaflashromscc+SD with some extra RAM really sucks if you want to play a game on real hardware and your only computer is the one you have.

But still, knowing the right commands in the right situation can make you play loads of fitting software. See those DSK files as ZIP files. Extract them with the disk manager you have a screenshot of. From there you can copy it to a disk you formatted on your SVI (profided that your PC drive is able to work with single sided disks, really, I have no doubt you have a single sided drive). Just be sure the games you pick are MSX1 games and if they're split in more than one file they stay below 64kB (32kB to be 100% sure). Find the file which ends on BAS or LDR and run it. If there's only one and it's not a LDR or BAS file BLOAD it. In disk manager you can see the size of the files. LDR and BAS files are always smaller than the BIN files. The BIN extension is not always used in disk hacks.

By Manuel

Ascended (18961)

Manuel's picture

04-06-2016, 18:50

Toni Ramirez wrote:

Regarding the loading commands, as I said I tried run, bload, load... and not with F1 Spirit only, but also with games that I extracted from disk images meant to run in a 738 (I downloaded, in fact, 70 disks full of games from a folder named "738"). F1 Spirit is not one of them, I got it somewhere else. But anyway: the other ones should run with the right command and they don't. I even tried to modify the code of an autoexec file in order to change the names of the games I deleted and write the names of the ones I put instead, but the loader just didn't load. "Nice" try, I guess. And typing "files" gave me the list, but all of them in parts or not bootable for some reason.

How exactly did you create the floppies?
If no loading command works and AUTOEXEC.BAS doesnt' work, but FILES gives the file listing, it may mean that every 2nd sector is missing. This happens with a mix-up of 720kB and 360kB floppies. (I've seen it in openMSX, when the disk image is 720kB, but the disk is formatted as single sided... this confuses openMSX.)

Quote:

The RAM memory problem: maybe that's the thing. But I assure you I have a lot of games from my childhood and all come in disks. And there I have lots of Konami games in disks with 18-19 games, but I just wanted to get the ones I didn't have, such as King's Valley 2, the aforementioned F1 Spirit or Maze of Galious.

The reason you didn't have these, is that they didn't work on your 64kB MSX Smile Only the original ROMs will work on your 738, unless you use a flash cartridge.
There's no way to run these large (128kB or larger) games on your 64kB MSX without help from a flash cart or external memory mapper. They're just too large!

Quote:

The only thing that worked for me so far is copying these .dsk files meant for the 738 as they come. With the loader in finnish and the selection of games they made. If I try to extract the ones I'm interested in and do my own compilation, of course the loader gets lost and then the list I get after "files" doesn't let me load any of them.

I checked that disk collection. E.g. disk 1 simply does loading as follows: BLOAD"NAME",R.
So the menu doesn't add much. (Try with that first disk BLOAD"MONKEY",R)
In other words: you should really be able to load these yourself if you make a separate collection. But the problem may be in the way you create your disks. Perhaps you can make a disk image of a disk you created and send it to me, so I can see what went wrong with it.

By Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Toni Ramirez's picture

06-06-2016, 10:13

That must be it! A RAM problem. Well, I'm not so useless after all. Just a little less than I thought. Smile

The menus of these disks work, although I must say a little slow. So with this compilations I've not needed to load with bload. Then, you're saying that the loading problem could be trying to dump 720 Kb images to 360 Kb disks, right? But... actually when I extract games I make sure they're not more than 360 Kb in its entirety. In fact, extracting them makes it possible to put more games in one disk and even so to not reach the capacity limit.

How could I send you an image of my compilations? They don't become a unified file with the floppy item. They're just a list and I write the disks.

By Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Toni Ramirez's picture

06-06-2016, 13:01

Toni Ramirez wrote:

That must be it! A RAM problem. Well, I'm not so useless after all. Just a little less than I thought. Smile

The menus of these disks work, although I must say a little slow. So with this compilations I've not needed to load with bload. Then, you're saying that the loading problem could be trying to dump 720 Kb images to 360 Kb disks, right? But... actually when I extract games I make sure they're not more than 360 Kb in its entirety. In fact, extracting them makes it possible to put more games in one disk and even so to not reach the capacity limit.

How could I send you an image of my compilations? They don't become a unified file with the floppy item. They're just a list and I write the disks.

I meant "icon", of course

By Manuel

Ascended (18961)

Manuel's picture

06-06-2016, 20:55

Toni Ramirez wrote:

The menus of these disks work, although I must say a little slow. So with this compilations I've not needed to load with bload.

Correct, I said that if you wanted to use them without the menus (e.g. by making a new compilation), you know how to load them.

Quote:

Then, you're saying that the loading problem could be trying to dump 720 Kb images to 360 Kb disks, right? But... actually when I extract games I make sure they're not more than 360 Kb in its entirety. In fact, extracting them makes it possible to put more games in one disk and even so to not reach the capacity limit.

I was not talking about 360kB games, but 360kB disks.

Quote:

How could I send you an image of my compilations? They don't become a unified file with the floppy item. They're just a list and I write the disks.

Please explain to me step by step what exactly you are doing to create a disk for your SVI-738 that doesn't work properly, only then I will be able to help you further.

By Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Toni Ramirez's picture

07-06-2016, 09:12

Yeah, I was talking about 360k disks too. I mean, the disk images can be 360 or 720, but once extracted the games aren't that big in size.

The steps:

1.- I drag and drop one of those 70 disk images to Disk Manager.
2.- Select the ones I want and extract them to a folder, delete the others.
3.- Close the Disk Manager and open it again (if I don't do this, the DM prompts an error message regarding the size of the files, even after deleting them)
4.- Repeat with another disk image until I have some games I want to put together.
5.- Drag and drop them to the Disk Manager and write disk (at 360 Kb), with the "format disk" option checked -if I format them in the MSX itself the unreadable disk ratio increases-.
6.- Put the disk in the MSX and, if I'm lucky, I see a list of games. And that's the end of the line, unless I write the compilations without adding or removing anything.

Thanks

By Manuel

Ascended (18961)

Manuel's picture

07-06-2016, 23:01

What if you format the disk on the MSX and insert it in the PC and then simply use explorer in Windows to copy the extracted files to the floppy disk? (Replacing step 5 and 6.)

Also, which version of DiskManager are you using?

It looks to me that DiskManager is not creating the proper formatting on your disk. (Looks like it does use 2 sides or something, so your real MSX misses half of the sectors..)

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5951)

NYYRIKKI's picture

07-06-2016, 23:05

Manuel wrote:

What if you format the disk on the MSX and insert it in the PC and then simply use explorer in Windows to copy the extracted files to the floppy disk? (Replacing step 5 and 6.)

I don't think that works in Windows for 360KB disks... Only 720KB disks... that do not work in 360KB drives... (and so on, so on... written million times here already -> Windows is no good)

By meits

Scribe (6514)

meits's picture

08-06-2016, 02:41

Tested it in mini windows xp from a bootstick in a computer with a built in diskdrive.
Formatted a DD disk on my MSX to 360kb, inserted it in my pc and copied something on it. I was able to read it on my msx.

By Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Toni Ramirez's picture

08-06-2016, 09:09

NYYRIKKI wrote:
Manuel wrote:

What if you format the disk on the MSX and insert it in the PC and then simply use explorer in Windows to copy the extracted files to the floppy disk? (Replacing step 5 and 6.)

I don't think that works in Windows for 360KB disks... Only 720KB disks... that do not work in 360KB drives... (and so on, so on... written million times here already -> Windows is no good)

Exactly. That's what I read here many times: if you format a disk in the MSX itself, Windows will be unable to read it or will make it unreadable by the MSX. Anyway I could try it, but yes, at 360 KB... I'm afraid it will be impossible.

The Disk Manager version I'm using is the newest available in the official website, by the way. Allegedly it fixes a couple errors of previous versions.

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