If the debate has specialised to programming on an axis of usability, and third-party programming tools are allowed, surely Turbo Pascal conquers all? That was a revelation in its day, and is completely MSX-DOS compatible.
For C64 there's the new Turbo Rascal Syntax error, “;” expected but “BEGIN”
http://www.lemonspawn.com/turbo-rascal-syntax-error-expected...
MSX computers come with a BASIC that understands hexadecimal numbers, and they have ROM routines for colour, graphics and sound, while the C64 ROM has no such routines!
That's ok and I recommend it. But what was/is your solution to problem of slowliness is BASIC, some people used Kun Basic compiler that came on cartridge.
and to be fair, MSX commercial games used Assembly language for the Z80 so I think it's no difference than C64 programmers who used Assembly for 6502. The only difference the MSX programming and memory layout and mapping is easier than C64.
The problem with the C64 v MSX is that in general on all computers people were advised to learn BASIC first, before possibly learning Assembly Language or Machine Code. People were often told "Of course, you really need to learn Machine Code". A common reaction to this during conversations was a false smile, saying "Right..." or "OK", while thinking "OMG, how could I ever do that?!" On the C64, it was very, very difficult, or more like impossible to do colour, graphics, or sound in BASIC, so people were expected to learn Assembly Language just to draw a line across the screen, or to play a tune which used more than one channel of sound at a time. This was actually because Commodore, or more accurately Jack Tramiel, insisted on reusing the same BASIC he bought from Microsoft back in 1977! No Commodore computer came with colour, graphics, and sound commands built in until the Commodore 16 and Commodore Plus 4 in 1984. This was followed up by the Commodore 128 in 1985, which was like a fixed and upgraded C64, which even displayed a Microsoft Copyright notice on the boot screen. This was only so Commodore could buy a Microsoft BASIC for the Amiga computer, which was a totally different kind of computer, not designed by Commodore at all, but by ex Atari engineers. It was inspired by the Atari 400/800 computers. Jay Miner worked on both designs.
You're right, even in MSX-BASIC you can do some business apps or even games, and when using Kun BASIC it's very good to speed up things.
The problem is that MSX fans talk different languages so there was not a link between the fans except now when you got internet and translators. For example, see "Valis" game for MSX1, it's a huge game, wasn't Konami able to do a contra port for example for MSX1?? the answer is they could do that. also, alot of games in C64 like platformers, could be made in MSX with more cheerful colors, take for example "thesuse" a fast paced game with nearly smooth hardware scrolling, imagine what games they could do with the same technique, but they didn't. So, I think MSX didn't take its full chance, for example there's no alot of platformers like Valis for MSX. It's up to modern day MSX programmers to do those games.
I always saw MSX as famicom, in my childhood, my friends got famiclones in the 90's and I got MSX, we always compared games between my MSX and the famiclones, for example circus charlie and yie ar kung fu.
Even here in Iraq there was a model MSX AX 990, that contained two cartridge slots one for MSX and the other for Famocom. and AX 660 contained MSX and Sega Genesis slot.
My MSX was AX 170, with Arabic firmware and I must say, two Arab companies Alalamiah and Barq made the best educational software for MSX, more that 100 quality program and I didn't see this quality in any 8-bit computer wheather it was c64, speccy, amstrad, atari ..
Take a look at some of those software, can be run online in your browser and some of them contain english support..
I think there should be a Doctor Who story about Jack Tramiel and the C64. Jack Tramiel caused millions of people to buy a C64 who only found out after buying it how bad its BASIC was. He seems to have escaped justice by dying, or has he? I'm sorry that lots of people have been deprived of ever seeing the classic Doctor Who series, originally shown in 1963-1989, although people in the Netherlands and Belgium could watch it on BBC1 (UK). I think he should be lifted out of time using a time scoop, as in "The Five Doctors" (20th Anniversary Story, 1983). This could even be done before he had the idea of creating the C64, but if it was after that point, he should be put on trial. If he was kidnapped by a time scoop before creating the C64, then he could just be dumped in 1995, when no new 8 bit computers could be launched onto the market. Here's a video of what that might look like, but the Time Scoop effect has been changed, instead of using the original effect, which looked like a triangular mirror. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spAGKcWHHss . Another idea would be to travel back in time to a computer show in 1983 carrying a C64 fitted with a version of Microsoft extended BASIC, then offer it for sale for about $5-$10 more than a C64 with Commodore BASIC V2. Perhaps it would even be displayed on the Microsoft stand. Bill Gates could be interviewed saying "We had this version of our latest BASIC, similar to the Tandy Color Computer, all ready for the C64 before it was released. We offered it to Commodore for only $8 per computer sold, but they decided to reuse the BASIC we sold them back in 1977! This means that C64 buyers won't be able to write programs using colour, graphics, or sound without using Assembly Language!!" I can certainly imagine the latest Doctor Jodie Whittaker doing this. "Let's get a shift on!"
If the C64 had had a newer Microsoft BASIC with graphics and music support, or if someone had told me that machine language is actually fairly simple, I would never had bothered with MSX.
Today (November 23) is actually the 55th anniversary of Doctor Who! Of course, no one has done a version of Microsoft extended BASIC or the C64, That's unless you count GW BASIC for the C64 available on http://www.commodoreserver.com/PublicDiskDetails.asp?DID=493...