Sources unfinished demo MSX with V9958

Door Accumulator

Rookie (28)

afbeelding van Accumulator

03-03-2022, 05:21

Hi, I stumbled on some old sources for an unfinished demo.
Scrolling, color bars, waving earth for MSX 2+

I have put them online for the lovers, otherwise they will be lost.
What I can not understand is why almost nobody used screen 10 for MSX2+.
In my opinion it is the best screen mode ever! (For an original MSX, without V9990).
Combination of screen 5 and 8... and the functionalities of VDP #27/28.

Have fun with the sources! ( Combination of everything, txt, bas, asm, scc).
I hope someone can use it for some good purpose!

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Van msd

Paragon (1477)

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03-03-2022, 06:38

I also still have those sources. I provided some of the graphics iirc. You did something in this code to prevent pixel noise in screensplits ( which can Be Seen in F1 spirit 3D.)

Van Accumulator

Rookie (28)

afbeelding van Accumulator

03-03-2022, 09:11

You are the only one who has seen them.... When I was at your place.. long, long time ago!

I cannot remember, but I only can remember I checked the M cycles and T states per OP-code. A NOP, or several NOP s is not always a solution. Normally you would get the noise approx 1/3 of the screen to 1/2 of the screen.
If you enable 7Mhz, (which I had a switch), you can see the noise a bit. It was all about timing.

Haha, you were the only one who has seen the development and the waving earth...

27 years ago!

Van Accumulator

Rookie (28)

afbeelding van Accumulator

03-03-2022, 09:23

Konami did a terrible job with F1 Spirit 3D special.... It was also the only game they made for MSX2+. They used only 1 to 3 pictures in screen 12 and some register 26 and 27.. That's it..
I am so surprised I cannot recall any game or demo in screen 10. Everyone is using screen 5, sometimes 7, 8..or 12..
Screen 10 is magical!!

About timing... you can check the sources.... Wink
My lesson was learned when I made the demo of 512 colors in screen 5!

Yeah, I really love(d) screen splits and timings.. You can so so much with only 3.57Mhz.

If my memory did not abandon me, the groups NOP (Unknown Reality) and StaTion (Dawn of Time) were the best in screen splits and timing..

Van gdx

Enlighted (5697)

afbeelding van gdx

03-03-2022, 16:45

Screen 10 was very little documented in europe and there was no editing utility in this mode.
Today it is documented but there is still no good graphic editor.

Van msd

Paragon (1477)

afbeelding van msd

03-03-2022, 20:41

There is not to much to be documented about screen 10 it is quite clear.

Van Grauw

Ascended (10620)

afbeelding van Grauw

03-03-2022, 23:06

I think the biggest two issues are:

Firstly, lack of good editor support. We have tools to convert images, but no good tools to edit by hand. I’m working on some Aseprite scripts which hopefully can help me with colour picking and conversion to YJK (while making use of out-of-gamut colours), but it’s not easy to get it to work right and comfortably.

Additionally, YJK is quite a difficult mode to grasp and requires a workflow to deal with the colour clash. The problem is not knowledge of how YJK works, but how to use it. I’ve yet to read a guide that really helps me figure it out. I’ve tried to gather some information in the pixel art thread and tried to write some guidelines myself in the MAP article, but honestly I lack the practical experience to really say what is the best approach. Currently I’m thinking maybe I should just draw what I want freely, convert it, and then deal with the fall-out, doing touch-ups on the areas where the colours were changed too much from what I intended.

This lack of best practices and tooling probably shied a lot of people away who have considered using the YJK screen modes.