I'm excited but a bit disappointed that this isn't more of a nostalgic machine.
However, if it is compatible with old MSX and there is a download system for old software (and new MSX3) I will buy a complete MSX3 system with keyboard (but not in crowdfunding, not by paying before the production) .
Do you think there will be an HDMI? sockets for accessories like on MSX or rather USB? SSD, HD or Blu-Ray?
I can't wait to see a final product. However, finding a company to produce the Hardware without the promised commercial success will be complicated.
2023.will be exciting.... For MSX
I know Nishi is making MSX3. I don't understand exactly how this project is related to actual MSX (I don't even understand what the new machine is about but it doesn't seem MSX3 extends the previous MSX machine.).
...
You've basically uncovered the main problem yourself: what in the world is it?
I've asked the question in a different thread on this forum, and never gotten a clear answer. With the msxvr it was easy: a raspberrypi-based emulation device with some pretty awesome msx hardware interfaces. With the spectrum next you have an fpga implementation of the zx spectrum, with a bit of optional extra oomph for the aficionados.
With the MSX3? All I got was a huge diagram that screamed "feature creep", without actually telling me what it is supposed to be.
I am curious on what the MSX 3 will be. The information so far is not entirely clear to me, so I will wait for the end product. It will run the old MSX games as far as I can tell and makes way for new ones to be created. When it will be available I will probably buy one.
In the mean time I do enjoy my other MSX machines and especially the MSXVR, which does not get the credits it deserves. I do think it is a very nice machine, and the games available for it are just awesome.
Interesting info in the msx3 Facebook group. There will be a new msx compatible version released (r800&z80 In FPGA )
I don't know why MSX makers didn't care about upgrading the CPU during the upgrading of the MSX standard. It was Z80 3.57 MHz in the first generation and continued the same CPU speed/abilities through MSX2 and MSX2+. We know how IBM PCs and Intel kept a parallel backward compatibility with every upgrade they made to the IBM PC itself and it's Intel's CPU since 8086 in IBM PC XT throughout AT, 386, 486, 586, Pentium (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Dual Core, Core2Due, Core2Quad, up until the new CoreI3, CoreI5, CoreI7, and other new once). The same happened (maybe I'm wrong) to Apple's PCs and their Motorola's CPUs. It's not hard for Zilog to make as powerful CPUs as nowadays Intel's which are backward compatible with its original Z80. Remember that when Zilog wanted it made Z80 which is more powerful and advanced version than Intel' s 8085 while it was backward compatible with it. So it's not that hard for Zilog to make an advanced Z80 CPU with every Intel CPU (8086, 80186, 80286, 386, 486, etc). If that had happened, MSX would have been another story. But MSX makers still can do it if really they want. I guess the only enemy of MSX was the idea of making a cheap computer compared to its rivals of the time which used non-Zilog CPUs.
I don't know why MSX makers didn't care about upgrading the CPU during the upgrading of the MSX standard.
Interesting subject. My theory is that most MSX users in the 80's were in fact kids - I got to see 8235's at school and Philips Designer was 'hot'. Those who expanded their PC probably did this in a company context (an office PC), so those costs were covered by the business itself. Kids rely on gifts or meager amounts of cash from a piggybank. More memory (like 256kb RAM) was already quite something, especially considering that for the same money you could get multiple Konami SCC-games, and there wasn't much software that would actually do something with that RAM, unless we include cracked ROMs. And these would have to be big ROMs then, as most ROMs worked perfectly in disk format. Move up a few years and cartridges went out of vogue, and multi-disk RPGs showed up. These were from JP and thus 64 Kb RAM would typically be enough to run them. You really could go along until the end with a bare 8250, the few essential expansions you really needed were sound chips. Even a faster CPU wasn't really that needed. So, if a manufacturer knows this, why bother adding things that don't appear to be in-demand? It'd only make the product more expensive.
In terms of game "power" it is not only the CPU the main factor. Look and Ghost'n'goblins for v9990. It is awesome even with a 3.5Mhz zilog. Power comes from the OPL & V9990.
I think msx engineers recognized that the main limit of MSX was the TMS chip. And they improved it with v9938. The rest of the machine was similar to competitors.
The main limits of MSX were the TMS chip. look @ SMS. Pratically the same MSX hw, the differences were the more advanced VDP (TMS like ;-) ). The quality in games is very diffent
So there will be at least 3 new MSX's?
1) MSX0 - IOT based raspberrypi-ish?
2) MSX3 - homecomputer-ish?
3) MSXturbo - supercomputer-ish?
And 2) and 3) come in different customized flavours? I try to understand what will be, but it's difficult and confusing. However, possibly that's because it's all still in development and nothing is put in concrete as of yet.
I don't know why MSX makers didn't care about upgrading the CPU during the upgrading of the MSX standard. It was Z80 3.57 MHz in the first generation and continued the same CPU speed/abilities through MSX2 and MSX2+. We know how IBM PCs and Intel kept a parallel backward compatibility with every upgrade they made to the IBM PC itself and it's Intel's CPU since 8086 in IBM PC XT throughout AT, 386, 486, 586, Pentium (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Dual Core, Core2Due, Core2Quad, up until the new CoreI3, CoreI5, CoreI7, and other new once). The same happened (maybe I'm wrong) to Apple's PCs and their Motorola's CPUs. It's not hard for Zilog to make as powerful CPUs as nowadays Intel's which are backward compatible with its original Z80. Remember that when Zilog wanted it made Z80 which is more powerful and advanced version than Intel' s 8085 while it was backward compatible with it. So it's not that hard for Zilog to make an advanced Z80 CPU with every Intel CPU (8086, 80186, 80286, 386, 486, etc). If that had happened, MSX would have been another story. But MSX makers still can do it if really they want. I guess the only enemy of MSX was the idea of making a cheap computer compared to its rivals of the time which used non-Zilog CPUs.
Truth be told, MSX was seen as a video-game mostly, and a cheap computer... Ken Kutaragi bought a Hitbit and a Famicom for his kids and they used both to play games and soon forgot the Hitbit...
There was a window of opportunity to take Japanese game market by storm if MSX2 focused more on game features, but Nishi didn't like MSX being seen as a videogame and even forbidden game related upgrades to the vdp (history is that multi color sprites were done by Yamaha engineers without being in the specs, and scroll was done only up/down to scroll Kanji text in graphic modes smoothly for ntt terminals using the same vdp).
Anything after MSX2 was already too late, too little... Not many manufacturers tried, to make a 2+.
So, I think this is all a conjunction of Nishi wanting MSX to not be seen as a video game, manufacturers wanting to sell a lot and seeing that MSX was being eclipsed by video games and that their money would be best invested somewhere else... ASCII alone, after Microsoft got out of MSX boat, had limited resources and made their choices... My personal opinion is that the only way MSX could have survived would be if it embraced the video-game role, more expensive cpus and processing power would cost money and put it into competition with well stablished platforms, MSX strong suit was being cheap and multi media (color graphics and sound and games in a fraction of the price of, competitors) and fun (again, my oppinion), making it more powerful and costing more probably would cause it to flop and not gain traction against other powerful computers of the Era that came before and were already well stablished.
I know Nishi is making MSX3. I don't understand exactly how this project is related to actual MSX (I don't even understand what the new machine is about but it doesn't seem MSX3 extends the previous MSX machine.).
...
You've basically uncovered the main problem yourself: what in the world is it?
I've asked the question in a different thread on this forum, and never gotten a clear answer. With the msxvr it was easy: a raspberrypi-based emulation device with some pretty awesome msx hardware interfaces. With the spectrum next you have an fpga implementation of the zx spectrum, with a bit of optional extra oomph for the aficionados.
With the MSX3? All I got was a huge diagram that screamed "feature creep", without actually telling me what it is supposed to be.
My understanding and Nishi always told that from beginning is that msx3 is bringing MSX easy of use to ARM, and on MSX3, backwards compatibility through fpga implementation of a Turbo-R. Anything more powerful than that is ARM / SOC related, backward compatibility handled by fpga. It will have IOT related stuff and a cheaper IOT only version that probably discards hardware backward compatibility, and a more expensive version that can be clustered (and probably also ditches hardware backwards compatibility).
Let's see if that is the deal or not, but this is my understanding so far.